Sustainable jobs are a very important criterion, simple and clear… -
Interview with Adil Tuleushev, Director of the Institute of Nuclear Physics of the National Nuclear Centre of the Republic of Kazakhstan

Adil Zhianshakhovich, you have known CNCP for a long time. What is your impression of the Programme?

CNCP has a very important peculiarity. Back in the Soviet times, and even now, practically everywhere in the world, and I have seen it in Europe and in the USA, business has been the top priority. In other words, if there is an aim to create something, people simply serve as the means to achieve this goal. Therefore, an effort to place an emphasis on a person, setting up good conditions for people is exceptional. As a rule, we all pretend to understand that “personnel are the key resource”, but this is no more than just a slogan. I wish it was offi cially admitted that a human being is the most important element, and this principle is followed systematically and comprehensively at CNCP... I had not seen it before and I have a great respect for this policy. This is something we have been missing.

On the other hand, CNCP is not just social support under the motto “Let us help you”. This is a very pragmatic programme with the approach, “We are going to give you a little bit of experience and a little bit of money and you will have to learn how to survive. We will teach you how to fi sh and you fish yourself”. This is real development assistance.

Can you give more detail? What problems do you see and how does CNCP help to solve them?

You see, the level of education both in Kazakhstan and in Russia is extremely high. It can easily compete with the Western countries. However, the level of knowledge application is awfully low. Basically, our people have brilliant brains, sometimes you can meet such talent that it astonishes you. They can produce a highly intellectual product for such miserable payment, but that is it… The end! It is not being put into practice. Because nobody has been trained how to do it, and it is a real occupation, since you need to make calculations, think everything through, be able to organize it, talk to people and make sure everybody is happy. How are we working now? A scientist will achieve a result and put the papers in the drawer, to hide it from others, in case somebody might want to steal it. Distribution of labour is required, not only in production, but in science as well. It is an ideal situation when a talented scientist is at the same time a talented manager, facilitator, and also a talented businessman, fi nancial specialist and a director… Nobody is against talents; no one is against Bill Gates… But where can we get them from? In fact the world is based on simple people. On people who know their business. A capable craftsman is the foundation of economic life. The same rule applies in science. And this is a critical aspect, and the CNCP Programme, as anything originated in Britain, is based on solid craft. I would put it that way.

Industrialization is the primary goal in Kazakhstan. And the approaches proposed by CNCP are vital.

In other words, you need to strive for results.

Exactly, but different people have a different understanding of results. Some think that if they make a new substance in a lab, it is a result. But it is not a result! A sustainable market position is a result!

While focus on jobs is a strong approach, it is not how many projects you have implemented, nor how many technologies you have developed, nor how many pages you have written. There are super technologies which do not lead to any jobs. And this means that the technologies were either not correctly assessed, the product was not correctly identified or the market was not well determined … Sustainable jobs are a very important criterion, simple and clear, and it’s no use fi nding excuses for why it did not work out.

Craft helps get rid of any vulgarity and pompous words; they are not accepted and do not make an impression. Everything is simple and practical:

• How many product units have you sold?
• This many.
• How much money have you earned?
• This many.
• How many people do you employ?
• This many.
• That is great! Good job!

What is the difference between craft and art? In art inspiration comes and goes… And here you need to make products. It is obvious there are talents everywhere, some had a wonderful training, others are gifted, but what are the rest of the people supposed to do? Learn. And CNCP teaches the craft of science-related business. It is not just fi lling time, it is teaching scientifi c business.

How are things in this area at the institute?

In my presentations I have always said that we make $2m in the market from a hundred projects. In other words, we are doing any job we can get, and we used to have small project teams even before CNCP projects were launched. These groups developed, driven by need; there was a need and they were formed, I would say intuitively. But this is bad. There needs to be a recipe. It is great when there are gifted managers, but the lack of them is not an obstacle for CNCP. Even if there are no smart managers, there should be a smart recipe. Basically the stake is not made on extremely talented individuals; the stake is on normal people. And this is another strong advantage.

Which problems are you most concerned with?

There is always a risk that any Programme can become excessively bureaucratic, and we all know examples where this has happened. We must make sure that our relations don’t fall into the same trap. But the fact that CNCP sometimes works through other organisations is reducing the efficiency dramatically. It uses a well-developed mechanism, everything is fi ne, no headaches, but the efficiency is going down! And when we are wasting time on bureaucratic mechanisms, we are falling behind with the market, and all our market research and our wonderful ideas are getting out of date. The institute should be able to sustain market competition with business entities, despite the fact that we are a governmental structure. And nobody is going to ask me if I have problems; if the institute pays less, people leave. And where has the knowledge gone? Business entities are a special thing… What if “accidentally” specialists with the knowledge of critical technologies get together and say, “We are going to show you what’s what!” That is why new jobs mean non-proliferation.

That is the main goal of CNCP. What is the status of the joint projects?

There are fi ve approved projects, not taking market research initiatives into account. We have been working on the procedure for about a year. What happens is CNCP somehow reaches agreement with ISTC, then it takes a while until ISTC comes to an agreement with us, and it takes a little less time when CNCP is making an arrangement with us. But all together these are three administrative barriers, which are very hard to synchronize.

And these projects will help the institute stand on both legs, compared to the one and a half legs we are standing on now; and additionally to get a good hold in the market. And it is not only about profi t, it is about establishing a precedent, where the project is not implemented as God wills, but an idea is gradually brought up to a sustainable business. And when it is not done by geniuses, but rather by normal specialists, people will start asking themselves, am I worse? That would encourage internal competition, and nothing else would need to be explained.

Should there be a transformation in the way of thinking?

Defi nitely. They would see how people who used to live in poverty are driving expensive foreign cars. What would be the reaction? I would do anything possible, revise all my ideas, I would not sleep at night, but I WILL be driving the same Mercedes! This is healthy envy – if he can, I can. Whereas if you cannot, why would I want to try? That is why it is crucial for me that this pilot group of projects succeeds.